Found Life Podcast
The Found Life podcast is where we explore the trauma healing journey. Host Tanisha Shedden takes you on a journey through personal stories of triumph and interviews with people on a healing journey just like you, and a few experts here and there.
Join us every Thursday, tune in for an inspiring interview with a guest who has triumphed over trauma and found hope on the other side.
Tune in and join us on this journey of discovery and hope.
Transform your life through hope, healing, and positive change. On the Found Life Podcast, we dive into mental health, healing trauma, and all things self improvement. Be inspired and motivated by personal stories, get mindful advice, and relax with occasional meditations.
Your host, Tanisha Shedden will unpack all things overcoming with guests from all walks of life. The Found Life Podcast is a real-talk show for real people living life after trauma.
Found Life Podcast
Embracing Bravery and Overcoming Mental Health Challenges: A Conversation with Mckenna Rose Brown
Description:
In this powerful episode of The Found Life Podcast, host Tanisha Shedden, a therapist and educator, sits down with Mckenna Rose Brown, Mrs. Utah 2014, Social Worker, Mental health educator, and Advocate. Together, they chat about Mckenna's deeply personal journey through severe postpartum depression and a misdiagnosis of borderline personality disorder, ultimately realizing that her struggles were rooted in trauma.
Throughout the conversation, Tanisha and Mckenna explore the complexities of trauma, the impact of negative labels on mental health, and the transformative power of seeking help and understanding. They discuss the importance of embracing bravery in the face of adversity, the often misunderstood nature of personality disorders, and the significance of reframing one's perspective on mental health challenges.
Listeners will gain valuable insights into the nuances of anger, the resilience of the human spirit, and the profound impact of genuine understanding and support. Mckenna's candid account of her experiences serves to inspire and empower individuals to confront their own struggles with courage and compassion.
Tune in to this enlightening episode as Tanisha Shedden and Mckenna Brown shed light on the healing journey, the power of vulnerability, and the profound significance of reshaping our perceptions of mental health. Whether you're navigating your own challenges or seeking to understand the experiences of others, this conversation is sure to leave a lasting impact.
Hi, this is the found life podcast. With me, your host, tanisha Shedden, I always wondered why so many people have found healing and found their freedom in so many different ways. As a counselor and coach and speaker, I have stayed curious and listened and learned about so many stories of Hope, healing and perseverance, and that's what this show is all about. We talk all things overcoming self-love, self-help and self-discovery. What you do to keep going is something I want to explore. This is a place just for you. This is for healers from all walks of life. This is the found life Podcast. Healing is a journey. You are not alone and you got this healer. Hey, everybody, thank you for listening to the found life podcast. Today I am speaking to McKenna Brown and we are gonna talk about all things healing, the journey and her experience with being a mental health educator and being Mrs Utah America 2014. Mckenna, will you please introduce yourself to our listeners?
Speaker 2:Yes, absolutely. My name is McKenna Brown. I have been married for almost 14 years. I have four children. I am currently studying my bachelor's of social work BSW at Utah Valley University. I'm double minoring in psychology and sociology.
Speaker 2:And what really took me on this path was my own personal mental health journey. You mentioned I'm a pageant girl. I'm very well Still inter, you know, being in that little area of life as well, I love it. But I've gone on my own mental health journey.
Speaker 2:After the birth of my fourth, I really it all kind of came to a head. I drove myself to the behavior hospital and that was about a little over four years ago and Fast-forwarded where we are now. Since then I've checked myself into a 30-day treatment facility in Arizona and that kind of put me on the path to Having a desire to learn more no more knowledge and educate myself. And I found through my journey that sharing my story and having vulnerability and owning my story has brought me. You know, I started my own business with it. I speak across the state and in speaking as far and as well as being interviewed constantly on, you know, wow, this pageant girl who had this great life now I never even thought she was struggling has really brought so many more meaningful connections and Opportunities for me and at times I still tell people. Sometimes when I share my story it's still a little embarrassing, like there's hard parts to share, but the more we share an own, I find my own confidence and self-love and I'm encouraging that across the board with all women.
Speaker 1:That's beautiful. I love that. I think that's for me. I found the same thing the power and sharing your story and I realize how much you know you can. You can own the hard parts and you can also own Like where you're at in your journey now, which I think is so important. It's so funny because I started doing this as it is a form of vulnerability for me. I do not.
Speaker 1:I have tried so hard to really be Like the professional when, I post on social media about mental health, but then also I realized how valuable stories are and I've got a long one and you know I think, right like I, I have my own trauma, I have my own, I have I went through a lot as a kid and you know, still I'm going through a lot and I think it's important for people to understand that mental health professionals are also human and that is kind of like what drives many of us to the field. We want to help others and we want to empower others on their journey. But, mckenna, my question for you, I guess, is how did you get to the point where you realized that you were like I need help, I'm going to go get help, and what did that look like? How did that feel? It must have taken so much courage for you to get in that car and drive yourself to the treatment center.
Speaker 2:It's, that's a. It's such a good question. I that day, I called the day, and now I've had many days, but the first day, that where I really realized like I need desperate help was I just remember thinking and feelings. I am so Sad and feeling like my family was better off without me, that this world is better off without me. And I started to ask myself you know, I believe that we lived before we came to this earth and that we chose to come in this mortal existence. And I thought why did I choose? I truly believe that we knew what we were going to go through before we came. And I'm like I I chose this. Why, why did I choose to come to earth? Like, why did I choose this journey? I like I don't think we're meant to live this way. I don't think we should live this way, like there has to be a purpose or has to be a why.
Speaker 2:And I started to go through Taste now our five senses, things. I believe that we experience here that we wouldn't experience other places, and I started to see this world and like a Different perspective, if you will, and I thought, okay, I know what I know and I know what I don't know. I know that I don't know, and there's things I don't know that I don't know, and I know that I am have so much more to learn and gain, and so I reached out for help and I wanted to know where I'm supposed to go. If I accepted this, then there has to be a path of healing like where? Where am I supposed to go? What am I supposed to do? So I started with square one and I just simply called a friend who runs a treatment facility close by to me and Just asked and was told her I'm struggling, where am I supposed to go?
Speaker 2:And in this moment of Dissociation and being dysregulated, all these things, I had that one same thought to ask for help. And I think that that's the purpose of saving your like. The basis of saving your life is asking for help. And I think that's the point that I was, that was, I don't want to live this way and I can't believe I'm having these thoughts. I don't. I know that that's not the solution either at the same time. So I had these conflicting thoughts in my mind. So I don't know if that answers your question, but it really kind of dialed down to just humility of like okay, I'm not. This is where I'm at. I need extra resources and tools, so I think that does answer my question.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much for sharing that. I think it's powerful to understand that. Like in those moments I feel like often people get to the point where they believe that there's no other option and there's no other way out. But you recognize well, I know somebody that helps people there's gotta be another option. Right, you were in the place of where it was a struggle but you were like, oh, but there might be another option. Let's explore that and let's see how that goes. For me and I think it's a really hard thing to do to call and ask for help and so many of us suffer in silence. I just I had a really rough week this week and I kind of did the same thing. I suffered and said that's okay. I did the thing because I have my childhood trauma. Really, what it created for me in my mind was a you must be the strong one, right, like you're holding it down.
Speaker 1:The caretaker. Yeah, like I was a parentified child in a lot of ways and I just kind of felt like I had to be. There was a lot going on and I was like, okay, how can I help? Which is not inherently a bad thing, but in a built hood it's created this. Like you're not gonna say anything, you gotta be the rock. Okay, nobody else can handle your pain right now.
Speaker 2:Like suppress don't be a burden.
Speaker 1:all the things I get it yeah yeah, and at the end of the week I just got to a point where I was like, oh, this is dumb, like, and it comes out usually in anger, and then it un yes, and then I let myself be upset and then I let myself ask for help instead of asking for help early, which is what I will encourage my clients to do all the time encourage anybody and it's yeah, it's hard for me.
Speaker 1:So I commend you for asking for help, you know, cause I think the earlier you can ask for help like that is what prevention is all about. That is what maintaining mental health is all about is being able to ask for help, and ask for help early and be able to get the help that you need in order to keep going and be supported.
Speaker 2:Absolutely.
Speaker 1:People underestimate how much support is really out there, you know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and that's part of one of my steps is what advice would you give to a friend going through the exact same thing To help people realize that they we are more capable than we even?
Speaker 2:know, or think that usually the answers that we have for a friend is usually what we need to hear, but we already have the answers within, not necessarily the resources, but the information on where to go, what to do. Like we have a lot more inside of us than we even realize that we don't give ourselves credit for that. You know, what advice would you give a friend going through the exact same thing? Okay, now read that back to yourself. Okay, actually, I know what to do, I know where to go, I know how to handle this, so kick it into gear and let's go.
Speaker 1:Exactly. Get yourself there. Everything's gonna turn out for your good. Really, it truly is. Everything's going to. Everything works out for you. Always. It's just a matter of looking at your life and saying, how did I get this far right? And, yes, things you can look at your life and see like a ton of just unfortunate events, but at the same time, you're still here. And how are you still here? You know, I think it's different for everybody. I think it's not as simple as that for everybody, but a lot of people can really say, okay, my life isn't perfect, but I've made it out every single time, so what am I gonna do differently this time?
Speaker 2:Well I say you've survived 100% of your days. You've gotten through a lot more than you even are giving yourself credit for. Like you are stronger than you even know. We just have to give ourselves some credit.
Speaker 1:For sure. Yeah, I love that you said that. So how did you start? What were your signs? Like how did you realize, okay, like things are going downhill and I need help. And like after treatment, how did you get? Yeah, how did you even get through all of that?
Speaker 2:So it's kind of like, honestly, a whirlwind. I see God's hand in so much. Honestly, I Was just surviving, not thriving. I felt like I was drowning and living to the next moment. A lot of my primary emotions Were suppressed and expressed through anger. My head was full of anger, not knowing that that was a secondary emotion, not necessarily the primary of like what's really going on. I was masking not necessarily masking, but I was. It was coming out as anger.
Speaker 2:I was an angry mom. I was suffering with postpartum rage, a lot of rage, and a lot of times we talk about just like angry mom, like, guess, I'm just an angry mom, this is my new normal. But then I saw the trauma that I was inflicting on my kids and I didn't know another way out and that's what catapulted me into this situation of like I, they're better off without me. They need a more kind, loving, patient mother. My wife, my husband, needs a better, you know, kind and patient wife. He deserves that. I just don't know how to get to that.
Speaker 2:But I think that's where it started, like I knew there was a problem. Also, I would flee, like I wanted to run away. I didn't want to be. I wanted to be anywhere but home and I. I know that that's also not a healthy perspective as well, but that's what my desires were and those were my actions, and that was also like. I know this is unhealthy, I know that this, this, I need help.
Speaker 2:And we were fighting all the time. Our merit, my husband's, like I can't live like this. I didn't want to live like that either. No one deserves Across the board, no one deserves to live like that. But a lot of times, we just accept that as our new normal and we just survive instead of thrive.
Speaker 2:And so that's when I started to kind of take a step back and go what are my options? This isn't. This isn't healthy. This is not happiness. And Men are that they might have joy, but I'm not experiencing joy. But why am I experiencing this? So I tried that was where I was and I'm like okay, men are that they might have joy, but how am I supposed to get joy from this? And so here we are today and I have Extreme joy from that, but in the heat of it, it's hard to know At what point do I ask for help, at what point do I search for resources? And I would just say if you're not happy period, if you're not experiencing joy period, there are options that are choices that are outside of you, that can help bring that into your life, and we're meant to thrive, not just survive.
Speaker 1:So I love that you say that and I love that you bring up anger because, like for me, I actually really enjoy in my work. I love working with angry people because I get them, because I'm yeah, right like I get.
Speaker 1:After my own soul, like I get the anger, I get the running and I think a lot of it for a lot of us who have had Suppression, or like we just get to a point where we feel backed into a corner, not only by our own emotional suppression but by, you know, when we feel that our needs haven't been met or we haven't because we haven't Spoken up about that's the thing is. If you're a suppressor, you're not speaking up about your emotional needs, you're not asking for help from your inner support system Usually, and then your needs aren't getting met and then you're mad about it and then you feel like, yeah, after there's no way out and it's just. It's just like a cycle that people with anger or who struggle with just feeling anger instead of the other emotions, it's just kind of what happens.
Speaker 2:And then leaning into anger and realizing that it's actually a sign of Depression.
Speaker 1:I think a lot of people.
Speaker 2:It is a sign for youth, it's a symptom for youth, but for some reason in the translation to adults, anger is not on the list of lists of symptoms. But we're coming to see as we do more research and like why is it for youth but not for adults? It's, you know, actually it is. When you experience anger, people just think I'm like actually it's a huge sign of depression, it's a huge sign that you're struggling with anxiety, but it's not Right now listed it. When you go to a doctor. It's not a question they ask you.
Speaker 2:And so we shame ourselves through feeling anger and comparison to other women who are really thriving. In motherhood I didn't feel like I was thriving. I thought, oh, maybe I'm just not meant to be a mom, like maybe this just wasn't my jam, you know and Realize it is. I just I Think we shame ourselves too much and act like everything's fine and being okay, like it's okay to say everything's not fine. I'm expressing this and then all of a sudden people come out me too, me too, oh my gosh, I didn't know that, oh my gosh. And it's like we're all in this together. We all are experiencing the same things, like we shouldn't be shaming ourselves or even judging others For experiencing that as well.
Speaker 1:Exactly exactly, and I think the more we've learned about trauma and Just mental health in general, the thing to understand is that, like I always hate the phrase like you're acting like a child right now when somebody says that to you or when you hear that other people.
Speaker 1:Because here's the thing our brain stops developing, developing at the level of learning that we get. So in childhood, right you, if your mother or father or parent taught you how to Regulate your emotions, how to take deep breaths when you get angry very simple skill that your parent could teach you, right, if they taught you that, that's what you're gonna do when you're angry when you're an adult. But if your parents didn't teach you anything and you threw a fit and then got spanked and sent to the corner, guess what? When you're adult, your fighter flights gonna come out, you're gonna get angry, but there's no one to spank you and send you to the corner. So you're gonna get even more mad and you're gonna start taking more actions, more anger out. Right, you have never learned how to deal with emotions. You never learned how to deal with anger.
Speaker 1:And so when, when we look at development and seeing people Grow up, seeing children grow up into adults who don't function properly in their emotions, we're not, we're not looking at a child versus an adult. We're looking at a lack of development in a certain area, and I really dislike when we we label Mental illnesses based off of symptoms. What we'll see in childhood versus adulthood. It is helpful when we have a normal progression of development. But if we don't A normal progression of development, which normal development doesn't happen. If you have a trauma history Like moderate to severe trauma history, yeah, the hippocampus.
Speaker 1:Stop growing and your amygdala gets huge. So you sense danger at like a way high level and you overreact.
Speaker 2:So Through trauma like a regular, healthy trauma is the line with two, you know, vertical a horizontal line with two vertical lines. Trauma branches off more and in the amygdala that's what's happening is like an overfiring. So a lot of times anger Is misdiagnosed as well as like borderline persilio disorder. I actually also think that we're misdiagnosing as a trauma response through moderate to mild to moderate extreme trauma, like I think we're starting to over Diagnosed with borderline, when really we're just doing a trauma response. It's really just me here going to trauma response versus what we our lack of knowledge or resources, if you will. Instead of saying like oh, they're borderline personality disorder, you know, or narcissistic rage, it's like actually let's go back to that person's childhood and their level of trauma and saying let's assess the trauma and maybe it's just a trauma response.
Speaker 1:I think it's really hard. It's an yeah, this is one of the things in the field you can't say because you'll make a lot of people mad. But I kind of agree with the borderline thing Like because and narcissism to an extent, and you know you can go into sociopathy any of the access, the B-access, which is the personality disorders. It's labeled as a personality because they're so hard to treat. And the reason why they're so hard to treat is because you can't keep them in treatment most of the time. And it's not positive or negative, it's just that it's so hard for that person to feel safe and not participate in certain behaviors that clinicians and practices will refuse to engage with certain behaviors. Right?
Speaker 2:Even insurance, like they're gonna be like what's her symptoms and we're not gonna pay for that. You know like it's hard to even like, get it on paper for insurance to even cover, because it's like, but she's fine, right, she doesn't wanna hurt herself right now. They, they're missing the whole point.
Speaker 1:And a lot of the time, honestly, like it's just interesting when you engage with those mental health diagnoses because, like, sometimes they're really doing really well and you're like, oh, this is awesome, and then just the setbacks look really extreme. The setbacks go from like you're looking like normal, we're gonna discharge, everything's good, to like you just self-harmed like crazy and you just like came in and like bullied the receptionist. Sometimes there's violence involved, all sorts of things and these behaviors often, yeah, are linked to strong trauma histories and you're like what's going on here? And so we? What would be really good is if we could, if we could figure out how to treat a lot of these like more severe diagnoses and be able to sit and hold space for them. But it's really hard work and there's and it's definitely, it's definitely a hard-foward.
Speaker 2:It's so tricky and especially getting someone who does have those diagnoses to like get the help they need by having them accept and acknowledge that they need help you know.
Speaker 2:So, I was originally diagnosed with borderline and I was. But when I sat down at my treatment center and we went over the DSM right, it's the DSM I always say DSW, I don't know DSM, dsm5 and we went through the symptoms, they're like you literally have three, maybe, maybe four, maybe they're like. What we're showing is you have these tendencies through your experiences of trauma. However, your rage is really a trauma response. We really are. Just we're not diagnosing you like we're retracting from whoever gave you that diagnosis by saying this is all trauma, let's heal, let's go back to being a child.
Speaker 2:And I wanted to mention, like people I know family members, friends will say well, I want to move on from my childhood, I don't want to dwell on the past. Well, I think that that's what made us who we are. So we are because we are who we are because of our past, and if you're not healthy, we need to, like, deconstruct a little bit. And I always give the example of an arrow. Sometimes you're walking through life, fall and chain, you're barely. You're getting through. You're moving forward, however, but these past traumas of unhealed being unhealed is holding you back from what you, your full potential. So, like an arrow, you have to pull it back.
Speaker 2:I didn't come up with this, it was a quote. I don't know who it was, but it really resonated with me when you, in order for an arrow to shoot forward and, flying, hit its target, hit its full potential where it's supposed to go, and hit that center target. You have to go back, you have to be pulled back. Really aim and then let go, let yourself fly, fly past where you're at right now, may take a couple of steps back to really fly yourself to where you're meant to be happiness, you know joy and thriving, and not just surviving with these balls and falling chain just like all over you. You know the heavy weight, the heavy backpack. You got to just take it off.
Speaker 1:Exactly and like it's so important to be able to go, and when we say go back, I think anyone listening to understand like you're not necessarily going to be digging up every little thing from childhood and going through and reliving stuff. We really try to minimize the harm, especially in trauma trauma therapy. If you're, if you have a trauma therapist and you're talking about your past with no information about why you're talking about it, your trauma therapist has not informed you what the process is and made it safe for you.
Speaker 1:And I understand why you wouldn't go back if you're doing that, because that's not, that's not trauma, informed practice at all, and so it's important to understand that. And understanding that, like trauma doesn't have a diagnosis, so we say trauma like it's thrown around a lot. It does, and trauma is not an official diagnosis in and of itself in the DSM-5. So we know the harms of trauma, we know all this stuff about it, but the trauma leads us to other diagnoses.
Speaker 2:But memories of the diagnosis itself. Well, it manifests in a different way right. Exactly exactly Trauma manifests differently with each person, which takes you to different personality disorders.
Speaker 1:honestly, Exactly and we haven't labeled it right, Like we haven't labeled it correctly enough. No, you narrow it down. So you're either diagnosed with depression, anxiety and ADHD Yep.
Speaker 2:You have three of those.
Speaker 1:You have some trauma right Like they don't, we don't have enough, we don't have the correct, we don't have the correct label, and so you get a bunch of other ones and it's really unfortunate and I hope we can change. I hope that change happens in the field where we could just diagnose someone with trauma itself and be able to bill insurance for it.
Speaker 2:Well, and I also feel that, like we, some people just don't like to give it a name, and so I'll say things like well, let's not give it a name. Let's talk about your side effects, like what is actually happening. Let's talk about your behavior. Let's talk about what you're feeling. Let's dismiss the names. How are we gonna treat this behavior? How are we gonna treat this emotion? How are we gonna? You know, let's not give it a label. I believe labels help give you information, to find more information. I do believe that over labeling can come into play, but I do believe that, like, learning about certain things and educating yourself help you understand your brain more. However, there are people like don't give me a label. Like let's not talk about the label. Let's talk about how you're feeling and the emotion you're feeling and how we're gonna solve that. Call it whatever you freaking want, but let's, let's address how you're feeling and then how to move forward.
Speaker 1:So true, and like I like to tell, I'll tell my clients that labels are for me. The label that's on paper is actually so me, as a clinician can look at the symptoms that you have told me or the experiences it's not even symptoms all the time, it's experiences that you have told me that you're having. It's just so that I can measure how those are improving.
Speaker 2:Oh, I love that perspective. Love that Because I also feel like with diagnoses, we also have the ability of resources and stories of people. That gives us access to knowledge so you as a clinician can go and say, okay, this has worked for A, B and C, saying statistically, saying we can go down this path. I actually really like that. I really like that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, thank you. How did you get to be a mental health educator, and is it just starting sharing your story, or did there come a point when people were asking you about it, or how did you get down that road?
Speaker 2:So how I got down that road was starting by sharing my story and then I found people reaching out. When I got on social media I just said listen, my friend was my safe place to help me get to where I needed to be. I want to be that safe place for others. I used to say I'm not a therapist, I'm still not, I'm going to be, we're going to get there. I'm not a therapist, I'm not a psychiatrist. However, I can help you find the resources like a social worker. I was doing that without being a social worker, just saying, hey, let me help teach you how to find resources near you, free resources. You know clinicians, therapists, psychiatrists and help just educate people on what I know and what I don't know. I can tell you where to go. So that's kind of how it started and the messages just started flooding. They still do, they still do and I'm able to say here's the website you put in your location. Here's that.
Speaker 2:Ok, post-partum depression, you go to PSI in your state. You do this. Ok, you don't have the money. Let's figure out how to get you the money. Let's figure out how we can figure out how we can not even get not necessarily get you the money, sorry, but the resources with your income. There's state, there's different resources. So that's kind of how it started, was you know? My way to give back is to provide resources and say, like I know I don't know everything, I know what I know and what I don't know. I'm going to send you in that direction. I think so often we I didn't want to pretend that like I knew it all or had all the answers, but I'm like this is what I do know, this is what I've learned, this is my experience. And these are people that can help you, that are licensed mental health care professionals that can help you get to where you need to be. And then, as I went through my own treatment a year ago, I went to the 30 day treatment facility in.
Speaker 2:Arizona changed my life and I was learning different jargon things to say, not to say, how to be respectful, how to do these and I'm like I didn't even know this jargon and I would sit in these psychology classes learning about the enigma on the hippocampus and the frontal lobe and the neurons and the neural pathways, and I was enamored. I was like calling my husband and he's like I think you need to go back to school. So then I thought you know, I do need to go back to school because I'm loving learning, and so that kind of is what started was simply saying I'm a safe place. There's nothing you can say that you've done or say do? That would make me judge you. I'm just simply here to say, hey, I'm a safe place, let me put you in the right direction. And now I'm like you know what? I can get my degree, I can go educate myself and become a licensed, certified social worker and do more. So I just that's where it all began, honestly.
Speaker 1:That's awesome. I think it's awesome when you can be empowered to learn that much and then you know, I guess we all choose what we do with our knowledge. But going further is so amazing. I think I don't know. I think learning takes you on such a journey because the information gives you so much. Just being aware of things sometimes is really helpful, because I think you know you can't always apply what you know all the time, but you can. But just knowing where, what's happening, why it's happening, yeah, so it gives you a sense of power, because a lot of the time when you have like, when you're struggling, Sometimes you hit a wall where you're like why is this happening to me? And it's not a victim mindset, Like really, it just is.
Speaker 2:You feel so out of control, like why is this happening? What just happened the last few days? Where was I triggered? Let's assess why am I feeling this way? Not like pity me, I see, totally sweet, you're saying it's like why is this happening? Let's take a deep breath and figure out why I am feeling this way Exactly, and it's just we get emotional like that.
Speaker 1:We get in places where we feel stuck emotionally, where we're like oh my gosh like I'm feeling this way again. What was happening the last time I felt this way? How did I get through the last time I felt this way? And it could be it could just be a process.
Speaker 2:There's something. One of the therapists and they did a documentary on my mental health journey. Oh my gosh, what is her name? She's an amazing therapist. And she said cause I felt like I was relapsing when I needed to go to this check-in, to a 30 day treatment facility, I was like what is happening? I'm a fraud. And she goes you're not relapsing, you're just lapsing. You're peeling back another layer of the onion. You might feel like oh, we've already addressed these emotions. Why am I feeling them again? It's like because there's something else to learn. You're peeling back another layer. You're vulnerable again and you're progressing. You're just taking another lap, you're just getting your laps in and I love the way she said lapsing instead of relapsing. Cause relapsing?
Speaker 1:there's a lot of shame.
Speaker 2:Lapsing is just saying, okay, let's go around another lap. What can we learn? Where am I going? What layer of the onion are we peeling back? How can we move forward?
Speaker 1:So I like that Exactly. And like if you think that going to do something, that one time is going to heal a lifetime of something hard, Exactly, yeah Right. Like I have so much trauma, Like probably every half decade of my life there's a new trauma and I'm 28. So you know what?
Speaker 2:I mean, you'll seem so much more but like 28, I'm not saying you're old, I'm saying you have a wise soul, you are a wise soul, my friend.
Speaker 1:You're like it's trauma baby. It is, it's trauma, but like if I thought that going to therapy for, like you know, six months was going to fix all that. It's just not true. I've been in therapy forever. I really have been in for a long time and that's okay.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's on and off.
Speaker 1:Like I have. I have, you know, I make a lot of progress and feel pretty good, thrive for a while, and then I hit another one. I'm like, oh, I should probably go back and talk about a few things. Like there's some concerns, or like as a therapist, I'm constantly hearing about other people's trauma and that in itself we call vicarious trauma, like it can be traumatizing, and so we go to therapy to make sure that we don't become more traumatized. Right, it's just go get help elsewhere too.
Speaker 1:I think for me, other supportive, like I love meditation guides or like centers, wellness centers and things like that there's so many things that help support you on the way of accessing wellness. You know what I mean. That it's just. I think it's something to be understood, that it's just scaffolding part of your life.
Speaker 2:Well, and I think, if you really think oh sorry, you're off, keep going, sorry.
Speaker 1:I think people really think it's like mental health accesses for emergencies only you know, oh, yeah, no.
Speaker 2:Maintenance.
Speaker 1:You definitely you know I get my hair done every four weeks.
Speaker 2:I'm going gray Like I definitely need to just part of the maintenance. You know I was gonna say like you can probably vouch for this that on the other side of all the trauma, on the other side of this hardship and this pain in those dark days, has come so much beauty and progression and like tapping into my a little bit of my potential, get all the tools I've geared up in my tool belt. When you maybe hit that wall, you're like, oh, I have this hammer or I have this way, this bulldozer now that can get through that wall so much quicker, where before you were just chipping away with your fingers like I don't know how to get through this wall. You get through it. Pick up the resources, hit the other. You're living a great life, or I think of them as like mountains, like you're getting mountain gear and you're climbing that next mountain, but you're not just using your hands and climbing up. This time you might have more. You know you have a carabiner now and you have the ropes and you have this, and then maybe you pick up a car and you're just driving up the mountain. You know, like I'm just saying that, whatever analogy or whatever way you want to take that is, there's so much beauty on the other side of pain and along the way you grab so many tools. When you do hit that next mountain, you're more empowered to get to the top and you're more empowered to say, okay, I'm going downhill, it's coasting, we're having fun. Okay, where's the next one?
Speaker 2:Now I'm kind of like hardships are hard, it never gets necessarily like joyful, but I feel like we got this. I feel more empowered. I'm like we've done this before, like if I did that, I can do this. So once you experience and get a little taste of like that beauty and potential and like purpose, you're like more empowered. So I was feeling like an imposter and like how can I inspire women when I'm checking myself into a treatment center and I'm like, oh, healing isn't linear, healing is all over the map. I'm telling women that no matter what we're going to go through hardships, it's how we use what we know to get through, pick up more knowledge and go move forward. So that was a hard thing for me to articulate for a while was, but I'm a fraud.
Speaker 1:But amen, hallelujah, because I mean healers, heal right Like. That's why I started this podcast is because, like, healing is for all of us and a lot of people who need healing also become people who help people heal, because we know what it's like and I think one of my professors in grad school always said this. She said if you're working with a therapist who doesn't have a therapist, you don't need to trust them, right?
Speaker 1:Like she was kind of like right and my program was very strict. A lot of programs don't require this, but my program required you had to go to at least 10 sessions of therapy during your time in grad school and you had to. We had to report self-care throughout the program.
Speaker 1:We had to like we had to be accountable for taking care of ourselves and a whole lot of stuff. To just make sure we were walking the talk. My program didn't wanna create clinicians or social workers who weren't going to practice what we preached, and so they, you know, they made sure, and so I think it's. You know, it's just one of those things where it does feel like a fraud and I think a lot of us feel that way, like it doesn't even have. You don't have to be a therapist to feel that way. I feel like I'm sure that I know Glennon Doyle recently had to go to rehab. Glennon Doyle wrote Big Magic. She also wrote a couple of other things, but Big Magic is like her most recent big book and it's like it's self-help.
Speaker 2:Is she right untamed?
Speaker 1:Yeah, she wrote untamed Right. So she wrote these amazing books about her journey and helping people and her podcast is about helping people and then same thing, like she had to go to rehab and she talks about it and I think it's important to be transparent and I know so many people that feel like a fraud because you know they have struggles, but I feel like we shouldn't feel like frauds. We should feel like humans, because humans have struggles, absolutely Like like what is this crap? It's hard Like it's really hard.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like, let's just get off our high horse about thinking that we're supposed to be the ones that are having it easy, because we're not.
Speaker 2:No.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Yeah just a lot.
Speaker 2:But it's also wonderful. I think the more we embrace, the more we will see beauty, the more. Once you embrace, you kind of get outside of the fog and you see the blessings, you see God's hand in your life, you see the miracles happening all around you. But when you're in that fog and you don't embrace it, you miss all the beauty all around you. And I think that was what I was missing was like the beautiful blessings and tender mercies all around me, because I was just drowning. I could barely even come up for air, but like reaching for that raft and reaching for the tools and getting back on and being able to like assess where I'm at, I'm like, hey, I got this.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we do got this. I love that. Okay, thank you so much for coming on. Mckenna, Can you please tell our audience where they can find you, how they can support you or get support from you? Absolutely All the things.
Speaker 2:Okay, so on Instagram it's kind of like my free sharing space, it's just McKenna Rose Brown, mckenna Rose Brown, and it's the same on TikTok. I'm not on TikTok as much, but it's there and my website is mckennarosebrowncom and that's where you can find me, my email. It's a lot of McKenna McKenna app mckennarosebrowncom too. If you ever need, you know Tanisha, she's amazing and I'd love to. If there's ever any questions you have about my journey or where I went, feel free to reach out to me.
Speaker 1:Wonderful. Thank you so much. Thank you for having me.
Speaker 2:You are a miracle. I'm so grateful that life connected us because I love you. You're amazing.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much and everyone listening. Please go check out McKenna. Remember that you're not alone and you got this Healer. Thank you for listening to the Found Life podcast. For more information and to follow the show. Please follow at foundlifepod on Instagram If you want to learn more from me, tanisha, you can follow me at foundbytanisha on Instagram or visit foundprojectorg for more self-help tools just for you to improve your life. Don't forget to review the show notes if you would like more information from the guests. Don't forget to leave us a review if you love us, and don't forget to tune in every Thursday for more episodes.
